Curse

SotiCoto · May 17, 2007, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Because... lets face it... Res Signet is all but worthless when there are few bosses about, and Sunspear Rebirth Signet isn't much better. I don't PuG much... but occasionally when I do, I tend to take Monk secondary in case I have to res any idiots, rather than bother with the stupid signets.

I reckon people of classes other than Monk and Ritualist would be more encouraged to have some means of resurrecting if there was something more reliable to use. I'm sure the matter of fitting an appropriate res to each class could be undertaken without much difficulty.... and there would be less cause to complain if each one of them had a particular condition to it that could stop it being overly abusable....

Like for instance... an Assassin res could rely on there being a dead foe in the area of the team-mate's corpse (achievable by assassinating whoever killed them). A Ranger res could be in trap form, easily interruptable. A Warrior res could be adrenaline based... with a high requirement. A Dervish res could involve losing all enchantments. An Elem res could be fairly fast but have a massive energy cost (and possibly res the team-mate with full health but burning for a few seconds too). A Necro res would naturally involve a health sacrifice (and possibly res the person with weakness, deep wound and cripple already applied to them, like forcing them through undeath first). A Mesmer res could well function rather like Vengeance or an anti-Unyielding Aura, putting an Enchant on them that will kill them again if it lasts its full duration but will leave them alive if it is stripped before then.
Have I forgotten anyone who doesn't already have a res?

Just examples of course.

[By the way I presume any PvPers who saw this would probably whine about it and QQ about balance issues. Well guess what... I don't care. Change is good. Sometimes the "meta" needs a kick up the backside. They'd all be fixed to be balanced if they weren't initially anyway.]

FelixCarter · May 17, 2007, 11:37 AM // 11:37

An interesting idea. I think (at least) it should be added as "PvE Only" skills for GW:EN. But I don't see why it would be bad if it could also be use out of PvE.

Perhaps an Elite PvPer might want to add a comment or two...?

Dougal Kronik · May 17, 2007, 11:43 AM // 11:43

/signed

Monks, Rits and Paragons have hard res. Time to spread the love.

freekedoutfish · May 17, 2007, 12:01 PM // 12:01

I dont mind the idea of giving all professions a dedicated ressing ability that isnt a signet and doesnt require a boss kill to regen.

But the problem with that is, it removes the dependancy on the monk or Ritualist as a resssing class.

The other issue is what kind of ressing ability would you give each class?

Consider that if you ress an elemental with little energy, they are useless for 30-60 seconds while they regen. So would you give an elemental a resssing ability that gave back 100% energy and 100% health? That would be an extremely powerfull ability and you can imagine all elementals would be forced to bring it.

For example as an ele, I bring rebirth while doing HM all the time. Its saved my pugs countless times. But drains me of all energy, so its a last resort thing.

The ressing abilities have to suit the class, but in doing so, would they become overpowered ressers?

I think keeping it as it is, doesnt hurt anyone. You can take secondary monk or Ritualists and bring any res ability you wish. We dont need new ressing skills, but its somehting that might be nice.

Faer · May 17, 2007, 12:07 PM // 12:07

Not that bad of an idea, but I feel a better solution to all professions not having their own hard-resurrection spell is to just bring one that does, rather than add one to each profession. Lots of people bring along Paragons and Ritualists, or use them as secondaries, just for those hard resurrection abilities. Removing that need for that profession, either as a primary or secondary in a team, hurts the great conquest of diversity.

That, or just don't die.

Div · May 17, 2007, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Not a bad idea, but make it pve only if it's implemented. But in reality, you rarely need a reusable rez skill since you can just rez a monk with rebirth. And if your team wipes multiple times like that before you kill a boss, then it's time to start looking for a new one. Also, it's not like you're losing much by taking one of the three secondaries.

JaiGaia · May 17, 2007, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Even though from my own idea of a "non skill slot rez", I was shot down like a duck flying south... i like this idea too as its still adding a new rezzing style to the game and something new to atleast the pve game... like any idea just needs some tweakin' [though im still for that non skill bar rez]..lol

SotiCoto · May 17, 2007, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

Not that bad of an idea, but I feel a better solution to all professions not having their own hard-resurrection spell is to just bring one that does, rather than add one to each profession. Lots of people bring along Paragons and Ritualists, or use them as secondaries, just for those hard resurrection abilities. Removing that need for that profession, either as a primary or secondary in a team, hurts the great conquest of diversity.

That, or just don't die.

Dare I draw attention to the time in Fissure of Woe when both Monks (one of my heroes and one of the other person's) and Olias (who I always give Rebirth to) died.... but nobody else... and the only one of us who had brought the Sunspear Rebirth Signet had already expired it?

Or indeed the time just the other day when a Mission attempt was completely messed up because.... once again.... the two monk henchies and Olias got killed.

It actually happens surprisingly often.... from my perspective... that all those with resurrection capabilities are systematically killed... leaving the rest in an awkward position where we can do nothing to help.

Like I suggested though... if the other classes were to get hard res.... it would have to be conditional, and generally inferior to Monk / Rit res. Either something that could only be done under certain circumstances for the same effect as an average monk res.... or something which came with certain drawbacks.... like being resurrected with conditions.

Cjad the Nord · May 17, 2007, 01:34 PM // 13:34

/unsigned

Three classes have a hard res, that's enough. Why would a Warrior without Monk/Ritualist/Paragon as his secondary have the ability to resurrect a dead person? I'll sign if you change it to Necromancer gets a res only, because your idea for that one was actually quite sensible.

Faer made a good point which is what I would've said; that is one of the appeals of those classes. Because why stop at giving every profession their own resurrection skill? Why not give everyone the ability to exploit corpses or cast Wards?

freekedoutfish · May 17, 2007, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Dare I draw attention to the time in Fissure of Woe when both Monks (one of my heroes and one of the other person's) and Olias (who I always give Rebirth to) died.... but nobody else... and the only one of us who had brought the Sunspear Rebirth Signet had already expired it?

Is that not the fault of your team for not ALL brining ress? You had an 8 man team, and after 3 people died, only 1 of you had ress! That a bad PUG!!

Thats no reason to introduce specific profession ressing abilities. All you needed to do there, was make sure ALL team members had either a res-signet or had monk as secondary and brough rebirth or some similr res spell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Or indeed the time just the other day when a Mission attempt was completely messed up because.... once again.... the two monk henchies and Olias got killed.

Maybe dont use henches? and/or make sure all your heroes have ress.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

It actually happens surprisingly often.... from my perspective... that all those with resurrection capabilities are systematically killed... leaving the rest in an awkward position where we can do nothing to help.

Again you say "those with resurrection capabilities". Why are you not ALL taking ress? I dont understand this. Its kind of an in-game rule that you should all bring some form or ress!

That would kind of solve your little problem of "3 died and only one had res"!

There isnt any excuse for people not to use or have res, because you get a res-signet at the start of each campaign. Along with countless other res signets which are available. You also have the option to go monk secondary and buy a decent ressing skill.

And monks do tend to be the primary targets ingame for creatures. Its not because they have res specififically.

If your using heroes and henches, then I can understand being annoyed that not all henches bring ressing abilities. But if your using PUGs, then your team have no excuse for not all brining ress!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Like I suggested though... if the other classes were to get hard res.... it would have to be conditional, and generally inferior to Monk / Rit res. Either something that could only be done under certain circumstances for the same effect as an average monk res.... or something which came with certain drawbacks.... like being resurrected with conditions.

Having read your examples of situations you've been in, i have to take back my "semi signed". You just dont seem to be forming very good teams!! Make sure all your party brings ress in future and you wont have this issue.

Or if your having issues with henches, dont use them.

Cjad the Nord · May 17, 2007, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Agree'd with everything the above guy said. Dying is a part of the game, and you're basically saying "let's get rid of that challenge cuz like, it's an inconvenience to me as I'm trying to farm mah phat loot". Don't mention DP as keeping it balanced, because using a scroll and some careful pulling will make DP disappear (done it many times in the Fissure of Woe).

We have ALL been there; paid your share of the UW entry fee, with high hopes for your PuG, and you get wiped before leaving the first chamber. It's an unavoidable part of the game.

On another note, I was once in a PuG with a very arrogant Elementalist who told me "A good Elementalist doesn't need to bring a res". Sure enough, some aggro'd an Aatxe out of nowhere, and the Elementalist ran off after we all died. Needless to say, he had egg on his face.

That's why you ALWAYS AND FOREVER bring a res to the Underworld, kids.

mazey vorstagg · May 17, 2007, 02:30 PM // 14:30

I never bring a res anyway. To me keeping the party alive is the monks job. as an ele I only focus on dealing damage and keeping myself alive. You'll usual find I'm the last one standing and my standard build is mostly a solo farming build.

Angel Netherborn · May 17, 2007, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Along the same lines... why not introduce more stances to all professions? Why not introduce more hexes and hex removals to all professions? Why not introduce more enchantments and enchantment removals to all professions? blah blah blah....

SotiCoto · May 17, 2007, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Is that not the fault of your team for not ALL brining ress? You had an 8 man team, and after 3 people died, only 1 of you had ress! That a bad PUG!!

Not terribly observant today, are you?
The team was formed of 2 humans and 6 heroes.... and heroes really can't use res sigs responsibly. They'll just spam them on whoever or whatever they feel like... I was the only one who could have brought a bit extra... but I've already expressed my opinion of Res Signets... and I would have expired it as well already anyway.

Quote:

Thats no reason to introduce specific profession ressing abilities. All you needed to do there, was make sure ALL team members had either a res-signet or had monk as secondary and brough rebirth or some similr res spell.

Generally a waste of skill-slots on the AI. While they're better than meatbags at a lot of things, use of tough-to-recharge skills are not amongst their strengths.

Quote:

Maybe dont use henches?

LAWLZ! ....

You are joking... aren't you?
Do you have any clue how incompetant the average PuG is?
I do much better in AI teams than human teams... Massively so.

Quote:

Again you say "those with resurrection capabilities". Why are you not ALL taking ress? I dont understand this. Its kind of an in-game rule that you should all bring some form or ress!

Hardly. Olias is Monk Secondary anyway, and doesn't have the same energy issues as other classes, so he can afford to use Rebirth. That aside though, all the others need their secondary classes for other things.... i.e. synergy. THAT is "kind of an in-game rule" too. And... well... I've explained about the general unreliability of res sigs... especially in the hands of heroes / henchies. I know all the henchies have it, but I rarely even notice anyway for all the difference it makes.
And me?
Why the hell would the only Melee character in the party, and an Assassin at that, bring a Res Sig on a regular basis? I don't get the time to jump out of battle and resurrect someone with some arsey signet or monk spell I don't have the attribute points to use effectively?

Quote:

There isnt any excuse for people not to use or have res, because you get a res-signet at the start of each campaign. Along with countless other res signets which are available. You also have the option to go monk secondary and buy a decent ressing skill.

Ok... let me use slightly stronger language.
RES SIG IS ALL BUT WORTHLESS.
And all the decent Monk resurrects require attribute points in them. The standard "Resurrection" skill is terrible... and the notion of it taking up a slot on an Assassin's skill-bar is ridiculous.

Quote:

And monks do tend to be the primary targets ingame for creatures. Its not because they have res specififically.

Funny. I usually tend to be the primary target for the creatures because I'm the first thing they see.... and often the last.

Quote:

If your using heroes and henches, then I can understand being annoyed that not all henches bring ressing abilities. But if your using PUGs, then your team have no excuse for not all brining ress!

Having read your examples of situations you've been in, i have to take back my "semi signed". You just dont seem to be forming very good teams!! Make sure all your party brings ress in future and you wont have this issue.

Or if your having issues with henches, dont use them.

Once again... Henchies >>> PuGs. There is no comparison. I can only handle PuGs at all when there is a set leader and an absolutely rigid set of orders that everyone follows without question.
Secondarily... it isn't that they don't bring the res... Henchies DO bring res... They're just bringing crap res.
Monk resurrection skills are ill-advised for use by members of almost any other class.... Same for Rit res... I've tried Tranquil Was Tanasen or whatever it was with my Assassin before, but you'd at least have to be a spellcaster to make decent use of it. In fact, anything that requires my Assassin to just stand there casting for several seconds is a bad move.... full stop.

MithranArkanere · May 17, 2007, 04:37 PM // 16:37

I'd rather add an option to shrines, so you /pray on them, and you bring back allies, by paying some 'price' in exchange (gold,morale penalty, etc...), as long as there are no enemies around.

Erys Vasburg · May 17, 2007, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

and heroes really can't use res sigs responsibly. They'll just spam them on whoever or whatever they feel like...

Shift+Click. Learn to love it.

After reading the post that quote came from, I feel that your suggestion is spurred purely from the fact that you absolutely refuse to bring any sort of resurrection ability that isn't tailored specifically for you, and works perfectly with your build, to all of your standards, no matter what anyone else thinks. You specifically hate Resurrection Signet because it's a three second activation one-shot (without killing a boss) skill that your AI team doesn't use "responsibly" (because you don't take the initiative and force them to use it responsibly, by not using it at all until you tell them to). I've been wrong on many things before, but that's the impression I am getting here.

Assassins in HA, TA, and GvG bring Resurrection Signet.

Think about that for a bit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Why the hell would the only Melee character in the party, and an Assassin at that, bring a Res Sig on a regular basis?

Probably best responded to with your own words.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

LAWLZ! ....

You are joking... aren't you?

First of all, see above. Secondly, why are you the only melee party member? Don't tell me you're one of those people who insist that their Assassin is an amazing tank... Because from the sound of it, you fail at that job. You talk all big and bad...

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Funny. I usually tend to be the primary target for the creatures because I'm the first thing they see.... and often the last.

...but you seem to be a bit mixed up here. If you're the first and last thing they see (I frankly think it's the other way around), then why are you party wiping? Obviously, you are amazing at holding aggro and should have no troubles with PvE at all. Oh, wait, it's the fault of the other party members, right? Of course, how could I be so blind. There's no way you could possibly be doing anything wrong. You're an Assassin in PvE; you are automatically amazing at the GuIlD wArZ!!!!11!

Panaku >>> You

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

In fact, anything that requires my Assassin to just stand there casting for several seconds is a bad move.... full stop.

Inviting you to a party is a bad move. It's no wonder you prefer henchmen to other players. I presume most of the PUG's you've ever been with have kicked you out because you are stubborn and refuse to bring a rez.

Seriously, don't make suggestions because you refuse to use what it already in the game. lrn2PvE and bring a damn rez for once.

Does-it-Matter · May 17, 2007, 05:36 PM // 17:36

This idea has already come up here.

Might be worth resurrecting... yes, I had to use that pun!

Anyways, to add to this thread, this was my suggestion.